Time, Consciousness, and Unconsciousness




Jcs-online, msg# 18101


Let us consider the following statement:

S1: Unconsciousness can persist for at most zero seconds.

I suggest that this statement is true.

***

Argument:

Let us suppose the following:

- O_A is a conscious observer that exists in spacetime.
- O_A is the only conscious observer that exists in spacetime.
- m1 is the moment "1:00 pm, Jan. 1, 2000."
- m2 is the moment "2:00 pm, Jan. 1, 2000."
- O_A ceases to be conscious at the moment m1.
- O_A does not regain consciousness until the moment m2.
- The time dimension of spacetime does not pass.
- When O_A is unconscious, O_A's subjective time does not pass.

***

Now let us consider the following statements:

S2: Between m1 and m2, time passes for a duration greater than zero seconds.
S3: Between m1 and m2, O_A is unconscious for a duration greater than zero seconds.
S4: Between m1 and m2, O_A is unconscious for at most zero seconds.
S5: When O_A is unconscious, O_A's subjective time does not pass.
S6: O_A can remain unconscious for at most zero seconds.

***

If statement S2 is false, S3 is false. S2 is false. Therefore, S3 is false.(1)

If statement S3 is false, S4 is true. S3 is false. Therefore, S4 is true.

If statement S5 is true, S6 is true. S5 is true. Therefore, S6 is true.

If statement S6 is true, S1 is true. S6 is true. Therefore, S1 is true.(2),(3),(4)


Notes:

1. In order for an unconscious state to persist, time has to pass.

2. We tend to think of unconsciousness as a state that can persist. However, unconsciousness is a state that cannot persist.

3. The argument presented above forces us to rethink the nature of consciousness.

4. Unconsciousness can exist for at most one moment (i.e., for at most zero seconds).


http://time-mind.net/intro.html


Adhanom Andemicael






Jcs-online, msg# 18117

[Harland Harrison]
PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY "S2 IS FALSE"

> S2: Between m1 and m2, time passes for a duration greater than zero seconds.
> - m1 is the moment "1:00 pm, Jan. 1, 2000."
> - m2 is the moment "2:00 pm, Jan. 1, 2000.."

m2-m1=60*60>0



thanks
Harland Harrison

[Adhanom Andemicael]
In order for time flow to occur between m1 and m2, Newton's time must exist. Newton's time does not exist. Therefore, time flow cannot occur between m1 and m2.(1)

[Adhanom Andemicael]
If consciousness does not exist, time flow does not occur.(2) If time flow does not occur, persistence does not occur. Therefore, if consciousness does not exist, persistence does not occur.

***

If unconsciousness exists, consciousness does not exist. If consciousness does not exist, persistence does not occur. Therefore, if unconsciousness exists, persistence does not occur.

***

Can unconsciousness persist?

A necessary condition for unconsciousness to persist is the following: Persistence must occur while unconsciousness exists. Note however, persistence cannot occur while unconsciousness exists. The answer to the question posed above is therefore "no."

We must conclude that unconsciousness cannot persist.

***

Let us consider the following statements:

S1: O_A's subjective time passes if and only if O_A is conscious.
S2: Between m1 and m2, O_A is not conscious.

S3: Between m1 and m2, O_A's subjective time does not pass.

**

S4: No objective time passes between points in Einstein's time.(3),(4)
S5: m1 and m2 are points in Einstein's time.

S6: No objective time passes between m1 and m2.

**

S7: O_A's subjective time does not pass between m1 and m2.
S8: No objective time passes between m1 and m2.

S9: No time passes between m1 and m2.

***

If S1 and S2 are true, then S3 is true. S1 and S2 are true. Therefore, S3 is true.

If S4 and S5 are true, then S6 is true. S4 and S5 are true. Therefore, S6 is true.

If S7 and S8 are true, then S9 is true. S7 and S8 are true. Therefore, S9 is true.


Notes:

1. Newton's time is the only kind of time that can elapse between m1 and m2. Neither Einstein's time nor O_A's subjective time elapses between m1 and m2. (Note: O_A's subjective time elapses if and only if O_A is conscious.)

2. Note: I'm referring to a scenario in which only one conscious observer (i.e., O_A) exists.

3. Einstein's time is static. (It never "passes" or "flows.")

4. The terms "pass," "flow," and "elapse" are synonymous.


Website:
http://time-mind.net/intro.html



Adhanom Andemicael


Re: Jcs-online, msg# 18117 (clarification)

[Adhanom Andemicael]
In Jcs msg# 18117, when I say "unconsciousness exists," I mean "no observer is conscious."

***

(Note: If O_A is unconscious, the statement "unconsciousness exists" is true. If O_A is conscious, the statement "unconsciousness exists" is false.)

***







Part II


Let us suppose the following:

- O_A is a conscious observer that exists in spacetime.
- O_A is located on Earth and is at rest with respect to the Earth.
- m1 is the moment "12:00 pm, Jan. 1, 2000."
- m2 is the moment "12:00 pm, Jan. 1, 2020."
- O_A ceases to be conscious at the moment m1.
- O_A does not regain consciousness until the moment m2.
- When O_A is unconscious, O_A's subjective time does not pass.(1)
- The time dimension of spacetime does not pass.
- O_B is another conscious observer that exists in spacetime.
- O_B is located on Earth and is at rest with respect to the Earth.
- Between the moments m1 and m2, O_B experiences 20 years of elapsed (subjective) time.
- O_C is a third conscious observer that exists in spacetime.
- O_C is located on Earth and is at rest with respect to the Earth.
- At the moment m1, O_C accelerates to a velocity close to that of light.
- At the moment m2, O_C is at rest with respect to the Earth.
- Between the moments m1 and m2, O_C experiences 10 years of elapsed (subjective) time.


***

Now let us consider the following statement:

S10: Between m1 and m2, O_A is unconscious for zero seconds.

***

I claim that this statement is true.(2)(3)(4)(5)(6)


Notes:

1. O_A's subjective time passes if and only if O_A is conscious.

2. No objective time (OT) passes between the moments m1 and m2. (The total amount of OT that passes between these moments is zero seconds.)

3. O_A's subjective time (STA) does not pass between the moments m1 and m2. (The total amount of STA that passes between these moments is zero seconds.)

4. O_A experiences zero seconds of elapsed time between the moments m1 and m2.

5. O_B and O_C's experiences of temporal passage are subjective experiences.

6. O_B and O_C's subjective experiences do not affect O_A's experience of reality.

 
 
 



Part III



For clarification of the ideas discussed in this section, please see the following articles:

Part IV
Temporal Passage (Part IV)
Solipsism and the Existence of "Other" Minds
Parallel Universes and the Mind
The Nature of Reality
Time Travel I
Time Travel II
Time, Mind and Superspace



Let us consider the following statements:

1: Between m1 and m2, STA passes for zero seconds.
2: Between m1 and m2, O_A experiences zero seconds of elapsed subjective time.
3: Between m1 and m2, O_A is unconscious for zero seconds.

**

4: Between m1 and m2, STB passes for 20 years.
5: Between m1 and m2, O_B experiences 20 years of elapsed subjective time.
6: Between m1 and m2, O_A is unconscious for zero seconds.

**

7: Between m1 and m2, STC passes for 10 years.
8: Between m1 and m2, O_C experiences 10 years of elapsed subjective time.
9: Between m1 and m2, O_A is unconscious for zero seconds.

***

Statements 1, 2, and 3 are true from O_A's perspective.

Statements 4, 5 and 6 are true from O_B's perspective.

Statements 7, 8 and 9 are true from O_C's perspective.(1)

***

Here are two more statements for us to consider:

10: O_A is unconscious for 20 years.
11: O_A is unconscious for 10 years.

***

Statement 10 is false from O_B's perspective.(2)

Statement 11 is false from O_C's perspective.(3)

***



Please note the following:

- No objective time flow exists.
- Time flow is a subjective phenomenon associated with consciousness.
- In the scenario that I describe, three subjective time flows exist: STA, STB, and STC.
- STB has nothing to say about the duration of O_A's consciousness.(4)
- STB has nothing to say about the duration of O_A's unconsciousness.
- STC has nothing to say about the duration of O_A's consciousness.
- STC has nothing to say about the duration of O_A's unconsciousness.
- Statements 1 through 9 are true from O_A's perspective.
- Statements 1 through 9 are true from O_B's perspective.
- Statements 1 through 9 are true from O_C's perspective.(5)



Notes:

1. All three observers claim that O_A is unconscious for zero seconds.
2. O_B has no reason to claim that O_A is unconscious for 20 years.
3. O_C has no reason to claim that O_A is unconscious for 10 years.
4. Subjective time streams exist independently of each other. (See section IV of my paper "Temporal Passage.")
5. Subjective time is an absolute quantity. It is not a quantity that varies depending on the reference frame.





Part IV (Clarification)




Please note the following:

- Three subjective timelines exist: TLA, TLB, and TLC.(1)
- Statements 3, 10, and 11 make claims about TLA.
- Statement 10 makes a claim about TLA that is false from O_B's perspective.
- Statement 10 does not make a claim about TLB.
- Statement 11 does not make a claim about TLC.


***

New statements


Here are two new statements for us to consider:

12: O_B is unconscious for 20 years.
13: O_C is unconscious for 10 years.

***

Statement 12 makes a claim about TLB.

Statement 13 makes a claim about TLC.


Notes:

1. I discuss subjective timelines in my paper "Temporal Passage."







Re: Situations and Consciousness


Let us define two situations:

S1: A situation in which consciousness exists.(1)
S2: A situation in which consciousness does not exist.(2)

***

Now let us consider the following two statements:

A. If consciousness exists, S1 exists.
B. If consciousness does not exist, S2 exists.(3)

***

I claim that these two statements are true.(4)


Notes:

1. The terms "situation," "scenario," and "state of affairs" are synonymous.
2. In my articles, I refer to situation S2 as "unconsciousness."
3. S2 (i.e., "unconsciousness") can persist for at most zero seconds.
4. See the following articles: Consciousness Always Exists; Are All Minds Finite?






Unconsciousness


What is "unconsciousness"?

"Unconsciousness" is by definition a situation. It is a situation in which consciousness does not exist.(1)


Notes:

1. The situation we call "unconsciousness" can persist for at most zero seconds. (See the following articles: Are All Minds Finite?; Consciousness Always Exists)




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